Books That Burn

Greetings! Welcome to Books That Burn. I'm Robin, welcome to another book essay about something that was too big of a thought to fit into a normal review, specifically: Why Immortal Longings by Chloe Gong is not like The Hunger Games. Please feel free to send us suggestions for future essays. Before I get started, I'd like to thank our Patron who gets a monthly shoutout, Case Aiken. The support of our Patrons makes this podcast (and blog) possible, and we're grateful to all of you.

When perusing other reviews of Immortal Longings by Chloe Gong, I've seen many comparisons to The Hunger Games by Suzanne Collins. This comparison is both slightly true and mostly unhelpful as a generalization, as what they have in common are either superficial genre features or not unique to The Hunger Games. I understand why the comparison occurs to people so I'd like to take it seriously. Nicole and I have covered The Hunger Games on our podcast, and I recently reviewed Immortal Longings.  I'll also make some reference to an earlier book with many of the same elements as later appeared in The Hunger Games: Battle Royale by Koushun Takami. You can find both parts of our podcast discussion on that book here (Part 1, Part 2), as well as my written review of Battle Royale. While I think it does make sense to compare and contrast them, these books are not interchangeable. 

Please refer to the link for the full essay.

Greetings! Welcome to Books That Burn. I'm Robin, and this is the first essay I've specifically written for the podcast, to be made available first to Patrons, then to the main feed and on Reviews That Burn. Please feel free to send us suggestions for future essays. Before I get started, I'd like to thank our Patron who gets a monthly shoutout, Case Aiken. The support of our Patrons makes this podcast (and blog) possible, and we're grateful to all of you.

*This essay spoils major elements of NIGHT SHINE and MOON DARK SMILE by Tessa Gratton.

The written version of this essay can be found at the link.

*This essay contains moderate spoilers for the first sixteen October Daye books, major spoilers for SLEEP NO MORE and THE INNOCENT SLEEP, and minor spoilers for Babylon 5 (S3 E4 "Passing Through Gethsemane").

Link to the original essay.

INTRO (00:36)

When reading SLEEP NO MORE and THE INNOCENT SLEEP by Seanan McGuire (the newest October Daye books), I was struck by similarities in the ethical framework of these two books and certain aspects of the 1990's sci-fi show Babylon 5, particularly the way that changes in personality or memories are treated with relation to assumptions of personhood. I am certain that Seanan McGuire is also very familiar with Babylon 5 because one of her telepathic characters in the Incryptid series uses specific aspects of Babylon 5 as a framework for ethical telepathy.

THE DEATH OF PERSONALITY IN BABYLON 5 (01:12)

UNDERLYING ASSUMPTIONS (04:46)

MAJOR CHARACTERS (06:45)

• Toby - Nickname for Sir October Daye, titular character of the series, changeling (fae mother, human father)

• October - Toby’s current personality in SLEEP NO MORE and THE INNOCENT SLEEP, remembers a different history from Toby of the first sixteen books

• Tybalt - Cait Sidhe (cat fae), Toby’s husband (October doesn’t remember him)

• Amandine - October’s mother

• Simon Torquill - Daoine Sidhe, Amandine’s husband, October’s father (not by blood)

• Titania - One of the queens of Faerie, cast the illusion which created October from Toby and distorted many people’s memories

• Quentin - Daoine Sidhe, Toby’s squire in the previous books, currently squire to someone else

• August - October’s sister, daughter of Amandine and Simon

• Stacy - Toby’s friend from childhood, recently removed by Titania

PLOT HIGHLIGHTS (07:47)

TOBY VS. OCTOBER (09:57)

WHY TITANIA DOESN'T THINK THIS IS HARM (11:17)

WHY OCTOBER WANTS TO REMAIN (13:06)

THE RIDE AND TITANIA’S ALTERATIONS (14:04)

TITANIA'S TRAP ON THE RIDE (16:19)

ETHICAL PARADOXES - PERHAPS UNSOLVABLE (17:42)

THE RESOLUTION (22:00)

A MASSACRE OF MINDS (25:00)

To tide you over between regular episodes, Robin reads their blog post from April 2023.

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This is a follow-up to my review of "Feed Them Silence" by Lee Mandelo, involving some thoughts that are too personal to make sense in the review as they swiftly veer away from the text specifically and instead into a broader meta-conversation of books like this which I have read previously, assumed correlations between emotional complexity and humanity, and how processing these thoughts has prompted me to make a change in my own life.

CW for discussion of ableism, dehumanization, animal cruelty/death, body-horror-adjacent concepts, and brief mentions of racism and genocide

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Wikipedia - Alexithymia

Wikipedia - Philosophical Zombie

Wikipedia - Masking

In Defence of De-persons by Johanna Hedva

The Ten Stages of Genocide

To tide you over between regular episodes, Robin reads their blog post from July 2022 with thoughts on the book "Singularity". You can find the original post here. The spoiler-free book review is here.

Please enjoy Robin reading their blog post with some thoughts on ensemble heist stories in fiction. If you'd prefer to read it instead, you can find it here. Refer below for books of the types discussed.

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Unplanned:

• THE ART OF SAVING THE WORLD by Corinne Duyvis - Parallel worlds subversion of the "big damn hero"
  Technically this group is unplanned and they don't already know each other, but on the other hand the group is the same person over and over from different parallel worlds. This leads to a feeling closest to the "unplanned" type.

Mastermind:

• RIVER OF TEETH by Sarah Gailey (its sequel is TASTE OF MARROW)Alternate history with hippo farming in the American South.
  I recommend getting the duology in the collected volume AMERICAN HIPPO
  

Pre-Assembled:

• JADE CITY by Fonda Lee (also its sequel JADE WAR, I'll be shocked if this is totally absent from the forthcoming conclusion JADE LEGACY)Lots of people have their own great reasons to steal lots of things in this epic clash between two powerful warring families. If I remember most of them knew each other before they their various thieving escapades, but it's possible that you could argue individual scenes fit "unplanned" or "mastermind" better.
• FEED, DEADLINE, BLACKOUT, and FEEDBACK by Mira GrantZombies, Politics, and Blogging. DEADLINE is the most thoroughly a heist story but the whole series is worth reading.
• BENEATH THE CITADEL by Destiny SoriaFantasy story about revolution, loss, and memory.
• TASTE OF MARROW by Sarah Gailey (sequel to RIVER OF TEETH)Alternate history with hippo farming in the American South.
  I recommend getting the duology in the collected volume AMERICAN HIPPO
  
• CONFESSIONS OF THE FOX by Jordy RosenbergTrans retelling of notorious thieves Jack and Bess. I'm unsure whether this is just the framing or if it's actually retelling an existing story, but either way I loved it.

Hero Needs A Crew:

• THE SPACE BETWEEN WORLDS by Micaiah JohnsonDimensional time travel story following an initially-lone hero who ends up assembling a group around her in order to pull off the big event.
  A mix of solo and group heists.
• TIMEKEEPER by Tara SimA clocktower mechanic is trying to get his father back by fixing time.

Cool heists in otherwise non-heist books/anthologies:

• "The Takeback Tango" by Rebecca Roanhorse in the anthology A UNIVERSE OF WISHES edited by Dhonielle ClaytonThe story itself is a fantastic single-person heist in the midst of an otherwise non-heist anthology.
• "A Drop of Stolen Ink" by Emily Lloyd-Jones (retelling of "The Purloined Letter" by Edgar Allan Poe) in the anthology HIS HIDEOUS HEART, edited by Dahlia Adler
• LEGENDBORN by Tracy DeonnModern-day Arthurian retelling.
  Contains a two-person heist partway through.
• THE WEIGHT OF THE STARS by K. AncrumSapphic romance: A girl yearns to travel the stars but thinks she must be content with her responsibilities on Earth.
• THE WOLF OF OREN-YARO by K.S. VillosoA queen journeys to meet her estranged husband and then has to flee from assassins in a strange land.

This episode we’re discussing “The Ghost Bride” by Yangsze Choo, where a young woman is engaged to marry a ghost, and it turns out he's more of a meddler than she expected from the dead.

• PUBLISHER: HarperAudio

• YEAR: 2013

• LENGTH: 368 pages (12 hours 7 minutes)

• AGE: Adult

• GENRE: Fantasy, Historical

• RECOMMENDED: Yes

Topic 1: Murder. Begins at (1:35), CW for stalking, murder, death.

Topic 2: Overdose. Begins at (11:18), CW for overdose, death.

Topic 3: Stalking. Begins at (20:02), CW for stalking.

Promo for CPOV Fun and Games; Spoiler-free wrap-up and ratings: Begins at (33:27).

Book TW for drug use, drug abuse, excrement (brief), blood, abortion (backstory), body shaming, child abuse (backstory), medical content, child death, suicide attempt (brief mention), suicide (backstory), death.

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Music provided by HeartBeatArt and is used with permission.

Members of the Certain Point of View network of podcasts.

This episode we’re discussing “War Girls” by Tochi Onyebuchi, a story of two sisters whose lives are ravaged by war.

Topic 1: Dehumanization. Begins at (1:35), CW for ableism, colorism, colonization, child abuse, medical content, body horror, war, slavery, child death, death.

Topic 2: Generational Trauma. Begins at (25:29), CW for PTSD, emotional abuse, physical abuse, child abuse, war, death.

Promo for CPOV Circle of Friendship; Spoiler-free wrap-up and ratings: Begins at (45:08).

Book TW for body horror, xenophobia, colonization, bullying, confinement (graphic), drug use, drug abuse, gun violence (graphic), violence (graphic), murder, war (graphic), suicide, child soldiers (graphic), child abuse (graphic), emotional abuse (graphic), physical abuse (graphic), infertility, torture (graphic), injury detail, slavery, parental death (graphic), child death (graphic), death (graphic).

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If you'd like to make a monthly donation, please check us out on Patreon.

For fortnightly news and updates, as well as links to recent written reviews, subscribe to our newsletter.

You can check out Robin's written review of the book at Reviews That Burn.

Find all our links on our Carrd.

Join the CPOV Discord Server!

Music provided by HeartBeatArt and is used with permission.

Members of the Certain Point of View network of podcasts.

This episode we’re discussing BATTLE ROYALE by Koushun Takami. This is the second of two episodes, this one deals with two characters who were damaged in different ways before the story begins.

• PUBLISHER:  Simon & Schuster

• YEAR: 1999

• LENGTH: 617 pages (19 hours 29 minutes)

• AGE: Adult

• GENRE: Dystopian, Science Fiction, Thriller

• RECOMMENDED: Highly

Topic 1: Brain Damage. Begins at (1:35), CW for violence, car accident, medical trauma, child abuse, murder, child death, death.

Topic 2: Sexual Abuse. Begins at (24:12), CW for child abuse, sexual abuse, rape, murder, child death, death.

Promo for CPOV - RMC vs CG ; Spoiler-free wrap-up and ratings: Begins at (47:37).

Book TW for sexual content, cursing (graphic), ableism, mental illness, homophobia (brief), homophobic slurs (brief), sexism, misogyny, fatphobia (brief), bullying (graphic), drug use (smoking), kidnapping (graphic), confinement, child abuse (graphic), sexual harassment (graphic), sexual assault (threatened), rape (backstory), adult/minor relationship (backstory, non-consensual), vomit (graphic), blood (graphic), gore (graphic), violence (graphic), gun violence (graphic), medical content (graphic), murder (graphic), child death (graphic), death (graphic).

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If you'd like to make a monthly donation, please check us out on Patreon.

For fortnightly news and updates, as well as links to recent written reviews, subscribe to our newsletter.

You can check out Robin's written review of the book at Reviews That Burn. 

Find all our links on our Carrd.

Join the CPOV Discord Server!

Music provided by HeartBeatArt and is used with permission.

Members of the Certain Point of View network of podcasts.

This episode we’re discussing BATTLE ROYALE by Koushun Takami. This is a two-part episode, in this first part we’re discussing students dealing with isolation and loss of control in the context of a deadly game.

(Part Two will release on July 31st, 2023)

• PUBLISHER:  Simon & Schuster
• YEAR: 1999
• LENGTH: 617 pages (19 hours 29 minutes)
• AGE: Adult
• GENRE: Dystopian, Science Fiction, Thriller
• RECOMMENDED: Highly

Topic 1: Self-Isolation. Begins at (1:30), CW for isolation, child abuse, murder, death.

Topic 2: Loss of Control. Begins at (20:20), CW for child abuse, murder, death.

Promo for Robcast; Spoiler-free wrap-up and ratings: Begins at (37:27).

Book TW for sexual content, cursing (graphic), ableism, mental illness, homophobia (brief), homophobic slurs (brief), sexism, misogyny, fatphobia (brief), bullying (graphic), drug use (smoking), kidnapping (graphic), confinement, child abuse (graphic), sexual harassment (graphic), sexual assault (threatened), rape (backstory), adult/minor relationship (backstory, non-consensual), vomit (graphic), blood (graphic), gore (graphic), violence (graphic), gun violence (graphic), medical content (graphic), murder (graphic), child death (graphic), death (graphic).

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If you'd like to make a monthly donation, please check us out on Patreon.

For fortnightly news and updates, as well as links to recent written reviews, subscribe to our newsletter.

You can check out Robin's written review of the book at Reviews That Burn. 

Find all our links on our Carrd.

Join the CPOV Discord Server!

Music provided by HeartBeatArt and is used with permission.

Members of the Certain Point of View network of podcasts.